{The List} Wonders

[Octavian X]

Table of Contents

Introduction

The concept of the great Wonders of the World in Civ is as old as the series itself. For years, civvers around the world have built Pyramids, Great Libraries, Magellanic Voyages, and trips to the Moon.

And, as Civ has gone from I to II to III, wonders have been added, removed, or have changed in some way. With Civ3 came the idea of Small Wonders that each nation had the oppertunity to build individually, further widening the effect of these great projects.

As Civ4 looms over the horizon, how will the concept of Wonders of the World evolve further?

Summary

Current Progress 7/3/04

As you can see, I'm still coming up with ideas already proposed and boiling them down into a list. The links I have found to all threads in this forum pertaining to wonders has been included. If you have some more links, or brand new ideas, please feel free to post them in this thread.

Related Links

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75460

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106609

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107895

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111317

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114759

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115569

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117740

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117222s=&threadid=107349

[Octavian X]

The Ideas

I. New Wonder Ideas
This section goes on the idea that the concept of the ‘wonder’ in Civ will not change from Civ3 to Civ4, that players will still accumulate production in a race with other civs in their attempt to build a wonder. Listed at those specific ideas for a brand new wonder.

Statue of Liberty
No so much a new wonder, but bringing back a great one from Civ2. A civ with this wonder, in Civ2, could switch to any government type, irregardless of possession of the prerequisite tech, with no anarchy time. In Civ2, it was rendered mostly useless by the fact that one could switch governments without penalty every four turns (the classic Odeo years). Arrian

Banaue Rice Terraces
Ancient - allows irrigation on hills (weak, needs more benefit, maybe cut irrigation time or allow hills/forests/mountains to act as irrigated square for the purposes of irrigating next to it). Solomwi

Channel Tunnel
Modern/Late Industrial - allows ground units to move across single tile straits without ships. Solomwi

Machu Picchu
Late Ancient - allows settlement on mountains. Solomwi

Attitude/Reputation Wonders
Bring back some of the old ones from Civ2 that could modify relations with neighbors. (Eiffel, Marco Polo, etc.) Solomwi

A list from La Diva. [i]Thanks. It’s a nice list, so it’s easier to copy it out word for word.

Apian Way (Small Wonder): Originally Roman Empire, huge boon to trade (25-50% for every city connected by it) and unit movement along its length (4 tiles instead of three like other roads).

For those who love micromanaging, the Wonder could cost a city less to "produce," but workers would return to existing roads for an additional one or two turns per tile, resulting in a straighter road graphic or a different color. Building the AW from scratch would take 25% longer than normal roads. The benefit would be only on city-to-city connecting roads, not on every city radius tile, but it would also apply to roads to Resources and to your civ's borders in anticipation of expansion by settlements or conquest. The benefit would continue until replaced by Railroads (not the Tech but actual construction).

For those who despise micromanaging, give the option to pay more and have the work magically appear when the Wonder is produced. The entire cost would then be based upon X base plus y for so many tiles to link all cities with one road at the time of the Wonder's completion, meaning if you add more cities while in production, the cost continues to go up - but again, you dodge the microM.

The Round Table (Great): A la King Arthur, this would make representative forms of government faster to discover and to implement with shorter or nonexistent anarchy.

Lewis & Clark (SW): This would double Movement Points of all units exploring black-out tiles, except when barbarians have been uncovered, so you'd have to deal with them normally. Speed wouldn't be affected by another civ's units.

Pony Express (SW): Faster communication improves Science and Culture and would reduce corruption in far away cities on the same continent. It would also speed up building the first Road between each city. Any additional city tiles worked for roads would still take the normal time.

International Red Cross (GW): This would be a major diplomatic boost, as well as better treatment for captured units and faster healing for battle-wounded units. Recovery from disasters in your civ would be faster, and if you "dispatched" (by Diplomatic order only, not by units) assistance to other civs, again another diplomatic plus at first. After several turns (20? 30?) IRC would become worldwide without needing to dispatch assistance. This could have a Cultural benefit as well.

Hoffbrau Haus (GW?): What civ doesn't want a world famous, first class beer hall? If it's a SW, the name could be customized to a know brew of that nationality. The benefits would be Trade, Happiness, and Tourism. We might have to watch out for alcoholism, though. If we want to avoid corrupting youth, skip this one.

Labor Union (SW): Primary benefits would be [Shield Production and Happiness [/B]. If we want to get this realistic, this improves factory life initally, but this also would bring about the possibility of worker strikes, and abuse of power by union bosses after basic working conditions have improved significantly. Unrealistic wage increases (how can you justify bolt turners getting $30 an hour?) also leads to rampant inflation. Someone suggested Wonders with negative as well as positive repurcussions - this one qualifies.

Yellowstone Park (GW): (or another kind of national park, forest, or game reserve - also suggested by justjake73, Thread 107895) This would aid Happiness and Culture , minimally reduce pollution, and slightly speed up production of ecology-related City Improvements.

Madison Avenue (SW): As the chief creator of demand for non-essential goods, advertising is a double-edged innovation. One feature would be a Market Research Advisor which could help your civ produce goods with higher demand (greater market potential). Obviously for Trade benefit.

Commodity Market (SW): Have you seen those brokers in the pit? Speculations on commodity futures adds a whole new layer of economic benefit. This could be influenced by added production variables, such as drought, flooding, mad cow disease, etc. Ditto for Trade benefit.

Insurance Commission (SW): Available mid-IndAge or later, a per-turn per-city premium would repay most losses from natural disasters and some other possible circumstances. Depending on how this is structured, you might want to insure only the most at-risk cities, like those near volcanos, in mountains, or on coasts or floodplains.

Sotheby's (Northeby's?) (GW): The Luxury quotient skyrockets, since it means you have lots of prillionaires who want to pay outrageous prices. But it might affect your diplomatic relations with less fortunate civs, so increased charitable outreach would be expected.

Peace Corps (GW?): This could help counteract the negative international effects of Sotheby's. If you don't build Sotheby's, it would simply improve Diplomacy with the underdog nations who are often the least friendly because of their jealousy - oh yes, they may smile at you in Diplomatic sessions, but only because they know they're severely overpowered.

Mickey's Park (GW): There's only one Disney, but his vision has caused millions of people to celebrate childhood dreams for 50 years, so it's worth inclusion. This Wonder would be a major Happiness boost and boon for Tourism and Trade . Firaxis would need to consider renaming to avoid copyright hassles.

Environmental Protection Agency (SW): This would aid in the battle against early pollution by creating it in the last IndAge when things start to get out of hand. Once built, this wonder would reduce the price of other pollution control improvements by 10-20%, and cleanup of outbreaks would take 50% less time. Also, maintenance costs for factories and manufacturing plants would increase because of more stringent EPA guidelines, so you have to decide if you want to make things fast but dirty or slow but clean.

Ecumenical Conference (GW?): If the suggested multi-faith feature is implemented, this Wonder would increase harmony between the different religions in your civ. If other civs paid a small tribute, they could benefit from the effects as well, essentially sending representatives to attend and bring back new ideas and attitudes (all AI, no micromanaging). Ecumenism could be an Advance instead. Depending on how rigid your civ's primary religion (a player-set variable), this could help or cause more unrest.

E-Bay (GW): Trade, trade, trade! The numbers would skyrocket. Might have to be called I-Bay or E-Auction to dodge copyright infringement, though they should love the free publicity.

other religious wonders : There has been discussion of expanding the Religion element of the game to include the more prominent world religions. Under that concept, if a city or civ reaches, say, 75% population of the same religion, additional improvements (basillicas, holy/miracle sites, pilgrimage destinations, retreat centers) could be available, including "Wonders" like the Vatican, Stonehenge, the Great Buddha, the Holy Mosque of Madinah, Lourdes, or the Mayan temples at Machu Pichu, depending on the religion.

II. Changes to exisiting Wonders
Again, this section goes on the idea that the concept of the wonder won’t change. These are only suggested changes to current Civ3 wonders.

Leonardo’s Workshop
Modify it back to Civ2 - all units, no matter where, are upgraded for free. Brent
“Between civ2 and civ3, I think civ3 had the better Leo's Workshop, except teh upgrade price should have been made lower, maybe 1/5 normal.” lajzar

The Great Wall
“Great Wall wonder should allow your workers to build fort tile improvements very cheaply for a set period (or set quantity of forts).” lajzar

III. New Wonder Concepts
Here’s where the real juice is at - the new ideas for Civ4 wonders. I’d like to give individual credit, but all these ideas were well discussed, so that really can’t be done easily.

Component Wonders
Force some wonders to be constructed in a sort of piece by piece fashion, kind of like Civ3's spaceship. An good example is the Great Wall - it’s obvious this wall does not exist in one city. It’s obvious that multiple localities should labor on some projects.

Rushing Wonders
Some wonders, to some degree, should be able to be rushed in some fashion. Among the suggested methods were the use of money, outright diversion of production from one city to another, and the use of caravans (a la Civ2).

Double-Edged Wonders
Some wonders should incur a secondary penalty in addition to whatever benefit that provide. An (admittedly terrible) example might be the Iron Works small wonder - it doubles production, but it should also significantly increase pollution.

Complex Prerequisites
Some wonders should have more prerequisites than certain buildings and techs. For example, you won’t see a great cultural wonder like the Sistine Chapel in a military town with no culture. Neither will you see Newton Uni. in a town with no science output.

Natural Wonders
The Grand Canyon. The Great Coral Reef. The Amazon Rainforest. Mt. Everest.Such are the wonders of the earth - and they should be included, somehow, in Civ4. Perhaps they could be impleamented as they were in SMAC - simply unique formations of the terrain placed randomly?

Task-Oriented Wonders
Probably not a good name... the concept is simple enough. When you complete a certain goal, you get a wonder as a reward. An example might be a transcontinental railroad, or a voyage around the world.

[Octavian X]

*Overflow Reserve 1*

[Octavian X]

*Overflow Reserve 2*

[Octavian X]

*Overflow Reserve 3*

Conclusions

[Enigma_Nova]

What about double-edged wonders?
Something that will give you a bonus in one area but a penalty in another?

[Vince278]

That bonus had better be worth it then.

[Enigma_Nova]

That's what I was intending.
Like the Social Engineering changes in SMAC, but with a few more bonuses, and costing a LOT more energy to implement.

[lajzar]

The Hoover's Damn wonder should definitely increase flooding chances (as should hydro plants in general).

The CTP AI governor wonder had a chance of rebelling each turn. That made it useless, as the chance was too high.

The Manhatten Project allows nukes for everyone. Sounds pretty double edged to me already.

[Enigma_Nova]

Great.
Then keep those ideas.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by lajzar
The Hoover's Damn wonder should definitely increase flooding chances (as should hydro plants in general).

Hmm... perhaps upon building one, you need to designate a tile in your city radius that will be flooded...?

[Enigma_Nova]

That would be such a mild penalty.
Just add a few spare squares in your ICS and you're good to go.
Add the possibility of flooding every square.

[Drachasor]

Flooding is pretty controlled with dams. You set where you want your resevior and that is all that "floods." If anything, dams prevent random floods, which is actually a detriment, since floods bring good soil for crops. If you make a dam, you should have to have a river, and then the food bonus from the river (which should exist) should disappear after the square the dam is on, downdstream, that is.

-Drachasor

[Octavian X]

There could also be the possibility of a dam break, which would flood squares downriver from the broken dam.

But, that's a bit off-topic. New ideas?

[ixnay]

I posted in the other thread about achievement-based wonders, that either aren't built or can only be built after meeting certain prerequisites.

For example, connecting two cities on the opposite side of your largest continent with railroads could result in a Transcontinental Railroad wonder that provides a boost to commerce.

Another possibility is Magellan's Voyage being based on actually circumnavigating the globe with a ship.